To send an email to Greg Roberts click here
Update 6/2/2007
Not much to report. With my back still crooked I can't do much right
now. When I move these speakers to my home for testing, I'll be doing
it myself. I can't let someone else do it, just too much risk for
damage. I appreciate the new owner's patience!
Here's a photo of the crossovers in my living room just waiting for the Khorns
to arrive. The Khorn in the background is a 2/3rds scale mini Khorn,
built just like a real Khorn but with a 12" woofer, a smaller midrange horn, and
"B" crossovers out of Cornwalls. They really sound nice, but they need
a little more power than my SET amps put out, and they are not imaging well
in my 22' long living room.
Update 6/17/2007
Still not much to report. But here are a few photos of more parts that
I'm going to test when the time comes. Right now I'm going to try and set
aside one full day the weekend of 6/23-24 for testing.
The Beyma tweeters finally showed up. I was surprised by how big and
heavy they are. They seem nicely made, but the plastic lenses cheapen
them as compared to the metal K-77's.
Bob Crites was nice enough to send me a pair of his replacement tweeters for the Klipsch
K-77 to try out during my testing.
These are highly regarded by the Klipsch Forum members who have
purchased them. It will be interesting to compare to the Beyma's.
I also decided to get a pair of Bob Crites cast-frame woofers that are made to
replace the K-33's. Bob Crites can be reached at
bobcrites@mac.com
The next update will include my detailed notes from my day of testing all these great components.
Update 6/23/07
Finally, I got to do some testing today. My brother-in-law helped me move
the Khorns to my home, and it took most of the day to move things and
get everything set up. I gave my wife some money and arranged to have the
house to myself all day and early evening.
Here's a picture of the living room full of speaker parts and furniture moved all
around to give me an unobstructed audition of the speakers.
First of all, I have to say that these speakers look spectacular in my living room.
It's different having them in a home environment than it is to have them
at my shop. I've had Khorns in this room for over 15 years, so I've gotten
used to seeing them in the corners, but none have looked as beautiful as these.
I'm referring to the wood grain of the veneer more so than the workmanship.
Sorry for the horrible pictures, but the lighting in my living room is not good for
photography.
I squeezed a few more components in with the regulars to do the testing.
I'll be using the same source for all my testing. It's a combination of
a Denon 1650AR used as a transport (which weighs about 20 lbs.), a MSB Link DAC III
with Full Nelson upgrade, HDCD card, 24 bit/96khz upsampling, a separate P-1000 power
supply, and a Monarchy anti-jitter box. I'll be using a Creek Audio OBH-10
passive remote controlled attenuated volume control for all testing.
I decided to do the bass listening tests first and change out the K-33 woofers for
the new Bob Crites replacements. I wanted more power for this, so I used
a McIntosh MC2100. I was going to use a McIntosh C28 preamp too, but decided
against it, so there is no preamp with this system. Signal goes from the
CD player to the remote volume to the amplifier. I set the volume pots on
the amplifier so that the remote volume control would be at full. This way
I would be comparing the same volume level for all songs and for both woofers.
I played 4 different songs, switched the woofers over in about an hour, and listened
to the same 4 songs again.
First was "Sail On Sailer" off of the CD Pete Levin "Deacon Blues" 2007.
This is a great sounding CD with lot's of Hammond B3. The particular song I
chose has a nice combination of 5-string bass guitar, a strong kick drum, and the low
percussion of the B3.
Next was a very nicely recorded jazz piece called "When A Woman Loves A Man" by
Bennie Wallace - Moodsville. This is on a Sony Demonstration disc SACD.
This piece has very nice low tenor saxophone sound that you feel as well
as stand-up bass with a big fat sound.
Next was "Your Good Thing" recorded by Boz Scaggs on his "Come On Home" CD from
1997. I'm not a Boz Scaggs fan, but this CD blows me away every time I
listen to it. This particular track is a good test of how well a speaker
is balanced between beaming vocals and the really well recorded bass and kick drum.
Lastly was "Summer Fling" by Spyro Gyra from "The Deep End" CD 2004.
This track has great low bass and kick drum. Spyro Gyra is a large
group, so there's always a lot going on when you listen to their music, and it's
a challenge for any system to reproduce it. Very well recorded stuff.
Right away I noticed an improvement in bass response as compared to my last Khorns I had in this room. Perhaps sealing the backs of the bass bins against the walls does help.
I did not notice much of a difference between the old K-33's and the new Bob Crites replacement woofers in the amount of bass or the extension of low frequencies. But there was one noticeable difference, and that is with the upper bass and mid-bass frequencies. The Crites woofers blended better with the mid horns. Instruments like horns, organ, and guitar playing in the lower registers all sounded warmer. I particularly noticed the difference with the saxophone in the Bennie Wallace piece. Nice sounding woofers, but don't expect big improvements by changing woofers unless yours are damaged to begin with.
Update 6/24/07
I just spent the last four hours comparing new "A" crossovers with
the ALK ES Networks.
I used two different amplifiers for this test. I started with my custom JFL Horus 2A3 Single Ended Triode Tube Monoblocs. These put out about 2 watts per channel and they have the best midrange sound I've ever heard. No preamplifier. The Khorns had the stock K55 and K77, the new Crites woofers, and new Crites "A" replacement crossovers. Now, my SET's don't have the best bass output, so I kept my music selections pretty light weight. I started with a Chesky production of Beethoven Symphony No.9 recorded in 1961, remastered in 1992. I listed to the third movement, about 12 minutes long. I then played a couple of Jimmy Ponder tunes, "Since I Fell For You" and "Sunshine" from "Something To Ponder", 1996. These have terrific electric jazz guitar sounds. Lastly I chose "Blue Rondo A La Turk" and "Take Five" from Dave Brubeck Quartet "Time out". This recording is not all that great sounding, so it's a good test to see which crossovers gave the most pleasant sound.
After listening to those tunes, I then switched over to my rebuilt Scott 299 A integrated amplifier. This is a great sounding unit that puts out about 17 watts per channel. I tweaked the bass up +1 and left everything else flat. Music choices became more demanding. I played "Gaslighting Abbie" from Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature", a song I'm very familiar with. It has a very tight and pronounced kick drum sound, deep bass, and intricate layering of instruments and vocals. Then I put on "Back In The High Life Again" by Steve Winwood. This disc is a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs disc that is really well recorded. This particular song has a great mix of synthesizer sounds, and it is a very crisp recording. I ended with a tune called "Stolen Car" off the "Sacred Love" CD by Sting. This CD has loads of great bass, and this particular tune has a huge synthesized bass and kick drum. The bass is over the top and a real good test.
So I listened to these six tunes on the two different systems with the "A" crossovers and then switched the crossovers out for the ALK ES networks. It only took me about 10 minutes to switch the crossovers. After the switch, I kept the Scott hooked up and played the last song first. I was very excited because I had heard so much about the ALK networks and here I was finally getting a chance to hear them. So on comes the Sting tune and immediately I can tell that the sound is different. The midrange is softer, maybe smoother, but I can't really tell for sure. Then I'm thinking that the bass is more laid back too, not as punchy. The highs seem very smooth and nice sounding. So is this an improvement? It wasn't readily apparent to me. I listened to the Winwood tune and really felt as though the bass wasn't punching through as much, and I also felt as though the lack of midrange was taking away from the impact and dynamics of the music.
So after about 10 minutes, I switched the crossovers back to the "A" replacements and listened to the same songs again with the Scott amp. Immediately the music seemed to have more impact, more punch, but at the same time it had a harshness to it.
So I switched back to the ALK ES networks, still with the Scott amp and this time I stuck with the Winwood song to try to figure out what it was that I was hearing different. It was then that I realized that the bass was actually extending deeper. I don't know how this can be, but the ALK's definately extend the bass deeper than with the A's, but it seemed softer and less punchy, so again, I don't know if this is an improvement. The midrange is also less harsh with the ALK's, sort of like they equalize out the upper midrange a bit. The "voicing" of the speaker was now lower, deeper, and more laid back. But is this having something to do with my perception of less dynamic sound? Maybe it's just that the midrange horn output is lower and that is what seems to be smoothing out the midrange. I'm still left with the question of whether this is an improvement.
Next, I switched over to the SET amps and listened to Beethoven's Symphony No.9 again. Now this sounded better to me. Just a tad more bass than the A's and the sound really did seem a lot smoother. I then put the Ponder and Brubeck tunes on again and noticed the same improvements to midrange smoothness and extended bass. So at this point I'm thinking we have an improvement, but I'm also wondering what the ALK Universal networks sound like.
Next up were the Bob Crites replacement tweeters with the ALK ES networks. The tweeters went in very easily using the same holes as the K-77's. The magnet just barely fit under the top, scraping against the top as I pushed the front grill back into the Khorn top. I was not able to detect much difference between these replacements and the K-77's. That is to say, both sounded very good to my ears. Now, my ears are older and it's possible that I don't hear very high frequencies as well as some others.
The last thing I changed today was the midrange horns and tweeters to the ALK Trachorns and Beyma tweeters. The switchover went fairly well and only took me about an hour. I had to very carefully push the wood horn back into the Khorn top, as it just barely fit under the top brace. I had to move one of the braces that holds the top of the speaker at the back so the midrange horn could fit in.
I think at this point I was getting tired. After playing with the midrange and tweeter output on the ES networks, I really didn't notice a lot of difference in sound quality. I'm going to do some more listening and tweaking through the week before I give my final thoughts on the sound of these upgrades.
By the way, every combination of music, amplifiers, and speaker components that I listened to today sounded terrific. The Khorn is an amazing speaker that is capable of reproducing sound in a very dynamic and moving way, whether with stock components or with these different components. I believe Paul Klipsch knew exactly what he was doing when he chose the components and crossovers for the Khorn. He had decades of time to work on tweaking the Khorn, and he changed very little over that time span. As I said before, maybe it's just that I'm fatigued, but if someone were to ask me to summarize my experience today, I would say that in the end, after all the upgrades were installed, the sound was just different, not necessarily better than the stock Khorn that I started with this morning. If better, not by much.
As I think about what I heard with the ES networks, I'm left wondering if simply putting a resistor in line with the midrange driver to lower the output, or tweaking the transformer taps to lower the output might not have the same affect. I do think the low bass extended deeper with the ES networks, but I also think the sound lost some punch and dynamics. The Trachorns just seemed like they were putting out less sound too. After I tweaked the crossovers to turn the horn back up, it pretty much sounded just like the K400. The Beyma tweeters did sound nice to me.
I'm very tempted to do another listening session with all the upgrades and then
change everything back to stock and listen again.
Update 7/7/07
Over the last couple of weeks I've been able to listen to the Khorns with all
the upgrades installed about 10 times. Just before writing this, I read
through my notes above, and I don't know that I have much to add. The
Khorns certainly sound wonderful. Every time I sit down to listen, I'm
impressed with how solid the bass is and how loud and clear they play.
They have such a lively, dynamic sound that really brings all the detail and impact
of the music right in your face.
But this description is consistent with how I would describe stock Khorns too. I'm still not convinced that all these upgrades are actually making much of an improvement in the sound quality. I'm noticing differences that could be interpreted to be improvements for sure.
There is a difference between speakers that sound nice and speakers that are accurately reproducing the input. I've had people listen to my Khorns and other Klipsch speakers and not like the sound of them. One person in particular who I've known for quite a few years, prefers his Vandersteen speakers to my Khorns. If you've ever heard Vandersteen speakers, you know that they are a great sounding speaker, and very different from horn-loaded speakers. I would describe them as being "nice", "pleasant", and "soft" sounding. I can fully understand why someone would prefer them over the sometimes "harsh", very "real", "dynamic", "live", "in-your-face" horn-loaded Klipsch speakers.
I think these upgrades that are installed in the Khorns, especially the ES networks, are actually changing the voicing of the speaker a little towards "nice", "pleasant", and "soft", and a little away from "harsh", "dynamic", and "in-your-face". Is that bad or good? Only the listener can be the judge. In my opinion, some of the dynamic impact goes away as the character of the Khorn is changed to be "softer" and "nicer" sounding.
I've been asked if there are any of these upgrades that I would consider a "must have" for anyone who owns Khorns. My answer has to be no. It's going to depend on how much money you are willing to spend, and no matter what I or anyone else tells you about the upgrades, it's still going to be an experiment, because we all hear sound differently, and we all have our own idea of what sounds best.
But I will say this. My experience with each of these upgrades has been positive, in that they all were very well engineered, very well built, and were easy to replace. The people who are doing this very specialized work to provide us Klipschophiles with unique possibilities are to be commended. Bob Crites is providing really good replacement crossovers and crossover cap kits at very reasonable prices. He's providing us with a very good quality replacement tweeter, that to my ears sounds every bit as good as the K-77, and perhaps even a tad better. The cast-frame replacement woofers that Bob sells are very nice, and after a couple weeks of listening to them, something is producing more bass output than I've ever heard from my Khorns. It's either the crossovers or the woofers, or both. I'm not one to believe in "break-in", but that may be my experience with these woofers, because they sound better now than when I first installed them.
The Trachorns are very well built wooden horns. I've changed so many things over that it's hard to say for sure what impact these are having on the resulting sound quality when compared to the ES networks for instance. My only complaint with these is that I think the grill cloth should be put on a bit straighter and with a few more staples.
The Beyma tweeters sound great. Lush is the word that comes to mind.
I have mixed feelings about the ES networks. First, they are incredibly well built and the sheer number of components is impressive. If there's ever any question about why they cost so much, that will be put to rest when you unpack these things and arrange them on your kitchen table. They should cost more than they do. So there's no doubt that you're getting your money's worth in engineering, parts, and labor, but what about improved sound quality? Again, this is a subjective thing, and to my ears, the sound was just different, not necessarily better. I really liked how you could change the tweeter and midrange horn outputs. I settled on the next to the highest setting for the tweeter, and the 2-5 setting on the midrange. I certainly noticed a correlation between how loud I had the midrange set and how much dynamic impact I was getting from the speaker, which leads me to wonder if simply finding a way to adjust the midrange output on the stock Khorn wouldn't also provide similar results but at a far lower cost. One last thought on the ES networks, with louder volume levels or less-than-high-quality recordings, the "softer", "more pleasant" sound was appreciated. I believe the same could be said about Vandersteen or similar nice soft sounding speakers.
I have to say that there's something that I like about the simplicity of the "A" crossovers and how they just let the music through, unfettered, open, dynamic, and yes, sometimes harsh.
I'm sorry for being so long-winded, or for any contridictions that there may be in my analysis of all this stuff. This was a lot to take in, and I've tried to give you my impressions of these upgrades as honestly and objectively as possible.
I am currently without any of my own Khorns, having sold the two pair that are shown here in these webpages. I have another pair ready to restore for myself.
Here's more information about the components used in these speakers:
B&K Sound
Bob Crites
1925 East Gum Log Rd.
Russellville, AR 72802
479-967-1542
bobcrites@mac.com
CT125 tweeters, $160 per pair plus shipping
CW1526C cast frame woofers, $220 per pair plus shipping
ALK Engineering
27458 NANTICOKE ROAD
Salisbury, Maryland 21801-1650
Voice phone: 410 546-5573
Fax: 410 860-9069
ALK Engineering
email al_k(at)alkeng.com (Replace the (at) with @)
Pair of Trachorn 400, $565
Pair of K-55 adapters, $12
Pair of Klipschorn grill frames with CP25 bracket, $87
Black grill cloth for grill frames, $75
Pair of ES400T + ES5800 (complete ES Khorn pair), $1390
All of the above plus shipping
Beyma CP25 tweeters came from , US Speaker, $298 for the pair plus shipping.
Here's the link to my audio pages main page Greg's Audio Pages
This is not my last update. I'll be taking some glamour shots of the speakers before shipping them out. I'll also take pictures of the crating. I hope to finish this page off with pictures of the speakers in their new home in Moscow Russia.
Update 7/28/07
The speakers are back at the shop now. I'm securing the crossovers
in the tops, cleaning and installing the grills, and a final cleaning on everything
before crating them up.
Crating materials
Update 8/20/07
Here's some photos of the crating process.
The crate weighed in at 835 pounds!
Here's some "Glamour Shots".
More "Glamour Shots" on the next page, plus photos of the speakers arriving
in Russia!
I appreciate that some of you have clicked the email link below to let me know that you're watching these webpage updates.
Is anyone watching these updates? If you are, please send me an email. No need to say anything, just click and send it. Thanks.
Please click below to continue on page 7, the last page.